Piper PA-28-161 and North American P-51D accident near Detroit, Michigan, November 7, 1987
On November 7, 1987 at about 5:41 pm local time, 2 aircraft, Piper PA-28-161 (N8253E) and North American P-51D (N6341T), were involved in the same accident near Detroit, Michigan (Detroit City airport). No one was hurt; 5 people were on board or involved. The weather was visual conditions (good weather).
The NTSB's probable cause their words, unchanged
The NTSB has not yet published a probable cause for this accident. Investigations usually take one to two years; this page updates when the final report is released.
Source: NTSB aviation accident database, copy made October 5, 2026. Docket and reports at the NTSB.
What the record shows
- Date
- November 7, 1987 · about 5:41 pm local time
- Place
- Detroit, Michigan · Detroit City · map
- Type
- Accident · collision on the ground
- Injuries
- No one was hurt; 5 people were on board or involved.
- Weather
- visual conditions (good weather)
- Aircraft 1
- Piper PA-28-161 · all PA-28-161s on the register
- Registration
- N8253E · no longer on the register · serial 28-8216183
- Damage
- Substantial damage
- Flight
- Personal flight · general aviation rules (Part 91)
- Aircraft 2
- North American P-51D · all P-51Ds on the register
- Registration
- N6341T · registry record · serial 44-74774
- Damage
- Minor damage
- Flight
- Business flight · general aviation rules (Part 91)
The NTSB's narrative for the Piper PA-28-161 final · quoted from the NTSB record
THE PLT OF NORTH AMERICAN P-51D, N6341T, WAS SOUTHBOUND ON TWY ALPHA AS THE PLT OF PIPER PA-28 CHEROKEE, N8253E, TAXIED FROM THE RUN-UP AREA TO THE HOLD LINE FOR RWY 33, WHICH WAS NEAR THE INTXN OF TWYS ALPHA & INDIA. THE PLT OF THE TAIL- WHEEL EQUIPPED P-51 WAS S-TURNING AS HE TAXIED TO CLEAR THE AREA AHEAD. HOWEVER, WHILE CROSSING THE INTXN OF TWYS ALPHA & INDIA IN A LEFT S-TURN, HIS RGT WING STRUCK THE EMPENNAGE OF THE PA-28. THE PA-28 WAS SUBSTANTIALLY DMGD WHILE THE P-51 RCVD MINOR DAMAGE. THE PA-28 PLT SAID HE HAD CONTACTED GND CTL BEFORE TAXIING FROM THE RUN-UP AREA TO THE HOLD LINE, THEN HAD CHANGED TO TOWER FREQ. HOWEVER, HE HAD DELAYED CONTACTING THE TOWER DUE TO RADIO CONGESTION ON THAT FREQ.THE P-51 PLT STATED THAT FROM A DISTANCE, HE SAW ANOTHER ACFT MOVING WEST ACROSS HIS PATH, BUT HE DID NOT RECEIVE AN ADZY OF THE CLOSE PROXIMITY OF THE PA-28. A CHECK OF THE TOWER TAPE REVEALED THE GND CTLR HAD TRANSMITTED TO THE P-51 PLT 'CAUTION FOR CHEROKEE AHEAD AND TO YOUR RIGHT.'
The complete narrative as the NTSB published it. The NTSB's docket holds the report as a PDF and any photographs, statements and other documents from the investigation.
The NTSB's narrative for the North American P-51D final · quoted from the NTSB record
THE PLT OF NORTH AMERICAN P-51D, N6341T, WAS SOUTHBOUND ON TWY ALPHA AS THE PLT OF PIPER PA-28 CHEROKEE, N8253E, TAXIED FROM THE RUN-UP AREA TO THE HOLD LINE FOR RWY 33, WHICH WAS NEAR THE INTXN OF TWYS ALPHA & INDIA. THE PLT OF THE TAIL- WHEEL EQUIPPED P-51 WAS S-TURNING AS HE TAXIED TO CLEAR THE AREA AHEAD. HOWEVER, WHILE CROSSING THE INTXN OF TWYS ALPHA & INDIA IN A LEFT S-TURN, HIS RGT WING STRUCK THE EMPENNAGE OF THE PA-28. THE PA-28 WAS SUBSTANTIALLY DMGD WHILE THE P-51 RCVD MINOR DAMAGE. THE PA-28 PLT SAID HE HAD CONTACTED GND CTL BEFORE TAXIING FROM THE RUN-UP AREA TO THE HOLD LINE, THEN HAD CHANGED TO TOWER FREQ. HOWEVER, HE HAD DELAYED CONTACTING THE TOWER DUE TO RADIO CONGESTION ON THAT FREQ.THE P-51 PLT STATED THAT FROM A DISTANCE, HE SAW ANOTHER ACFT MOVING WEST ACROSS HIS PATH, BUT HE DID NOT RECEIVE AN ADZY OF THE CLOSE PROXIMITY OF THE PA-28. A CHECK OF THE TOWER TAPE REVEALED THE GND CTLR HAD TRANSMITTED TO THE P-51 PLT 'CAUTION FOR CHEROKEE AHEAD AND TO YOUR RIGHT.'
The complete narrative as the NTSB published it. The NTSB's docket holds the report as a PDF and any photographs, statements and other documents from the investigation.
The factual record for the Piper PA-28-161 from the NTSB's investigation tables, in plain English
Pilot
- Certificate: flight instructor, commercial pilot
- Ratings: multi-engine land; single-engine land; instructor: airplane single-engine; instrument: airplane
- Flight time: 520 hours in all; 20 in this make and model; 170 in the last 90 days; 376 as pilot in command
- Medical certificate: Class 2 (valid medical--no waivers/lim.)
- Seat: left
The aircraft
- Airframe total time: 3,367 hours
- Last inspection: 100-hour inspection, October 16, 1987; 50 hours since
- Maximum gross weight: 2,200 lb
- Seats: 4
- Landing gear: fixed
- Engine: Lycoming O-320-D3G (piston); 0 hours total
The flight
- Departed from: DET at 5:40 pm
- Flight plan: none
- Runway 33, 5,090 ft by 100 ft
Weather at the time
- Light: daylight
- Visibility: 15 statute miles
- Sky: scat at 30,000 ft
- Temperature: 54°F (12°C), dew point 34°F (1°C)
- Altimeter: 30.00 inHg
- Observation at 5:42 pm from DET
Injuries
| Fatal | Serious | Minor | None | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Crew | 1 | |||
| Passengers | 3 |
The factual record for the North American P-51D from the NTSB's investigation tables, in plain English
Pilot
- Certificate: private
- Ratings: multi-engine land; single-engine land
- Flight time: 2,090 hours in all; 516 in this make and model; 45 in the last 90 days; 2,090 as pilot in command
- Medical certificate: Class 3 (valid medical--w/ waivers/lim.)
- Seat: frt
The aircraft
- Airframe total time: 2,503 hours
- Last inspection: annual inspection, July 15, 1987
- Maximum gross weight: 8,157 lb
- Seats: 1
- Landing gear: retractable
- Engine: Rolls-Royce V-1650 (piston); 0 hours total
The flight
- Departed from: DET
- Destination: DET
- Flight plan: none
- Runway 33, 5,090 ft by 100 ft
Injuries
| Fatal | Serious | Minor | None | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Crew | 1 |
Documents from the investigation the NTSB's docket: the evidence folder behind the report
The docket, the folder of records gathered during an investigation (maintenance records, photographs, witness statements, examinations), has not been read from the NTSB for this case yet; the list appears here once it has. Open the docket at the NTSB.
Other NTSB records under N8253E the same tail number, which may have belonged to a different aircraft at the time
Everything on this page comes from the NTSB's public records. The narrative, probable cause and findings are the NTSB's own words; the coded tables behind the report are written out in plain English, with pilots' ages, home towns and medical details left out. The documents and photographs are the NTSB's docket, shown as the NTSB released them. This site's own text never names anyone involved. A preliminary report can change; the final report usually follows one to two years later, and the page is refreshed when it does.